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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2218
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Posted - 2014.12.07 04:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:the whole change out to fulfill a different role is just that. a different role with different features. you can try and maintain your old role while doing you new role but would suffer in some way. is this not something reasonable to expect. currently you do not suffer anything by changing suit yet benefit more than those who don't change suits. this is a big issue to me. This would be great if we had 30 - 40 people per side and not 1/4 of the team either AFK or total newbs thrown in by Scotty. With 16 v 16 it is totally necessary to be able to switch to whatever is neeeded.
*cough*
Why?
Why? You seem to like saying that (I've seen that statement since the beginning of this debacle), but also no real proof that that's not just BS coughed up by you guys.
You have 2 Squads and 2 randoms in that structure. Theoretically.
A squad is 6 People. If One is Heavy, One is Logi, One is Scout(legit scout), and Three are Assault, You pretty much have the bases covered.
If you are solo, why do you need to go and drop copious amounts of equip? There are already 2 folks on the team spending copious amounts of time dropping copious amounts of equip. They are dropping the Links and Hives for their squad, and for all to use.
Of course, Having Hives for yourself is always smart, and having links is also a good idea. Tactical Flexibility. But ultimately, if your a solo logi (or trying to pretend to be one), You are going to do a **** job overall. The people you rep will love you, but the team overall gains nothing.
I Live for Tears
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2219
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Posted - 2014.12.07 04:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:If you are solo, why do you need to go and drop copious amounts of equip? There are already 2 folks on the team spending copious amounts of time dropping copious amounts of equip. They are dropping the Links and Hives for their squad, and for all to use.
Of course, Having Hives for yourself is always smart, and having links is also a good idea. Tactical Flexibility. But ultimately, if your a solo logi (or trying to pretend to be one), You are going to do a **** job overall. The people you rep will love you, but the team overall gains nothing. If ground-deployed uplinks are left unattended, friendlies get camped and REd. Asking squadded logis to fly up and deploy links on high structures, separates them from their squad. Unless the squad sticks around and defends/guards the uplinks, they can be removed/camped/REd by hostiles. The job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf. I don't know any lonewolves who will want to spend the entire remainder of the match in a logi outfit. So, for logis to do a good job, they had better deploy uplinks to secure, durable places. And the squad should stick around and protect uplinks that are in hazardous zones. Otherwise, the deployed uplinks are doing the team a disservice.
...
So...
Your saying, that for in order for Uplinks to work, you need to fly up and drop them in sniper perches, and then continue assaulting.
And, so also apparently determined that a Scout, or a Assault, with their equipment, could NEVER be used to drop links where they are needed?
Quite literally, the assault can drop all the uplinks it can deploy, and then go about its slaying. No drawback other then having to fit the damn things.
I Live for Tears
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2221
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Posted - 2014.12.07 05:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:If you are solo, why do you need to go and drop copious amounts of equip? There are already 2 folks on the team spending copious amounts of time dropping copious amounts of equip. They are dropping the Links and Hives for their squad, and for all to use.
Of course, Having Hives for yourself is always smart, and having links is also a good idea. Tactical Flexibility. But ultimately, if your a solo logi (or trying to pretend to be one), You are going to do a **** job overall. The people you rep will love you, but the team overall gains nothing. If ground-deployed uplinks are left unattended, friendlies get camped and REd. Asking squadded logis to fly up and deploy links on high structures, separates them from their squad. Unless the squad sticks around and defends/guards the uplinks, they can be removed/camped/REd by hostiles. The job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf. I don't know any lonewolves who will want to spend the entire remainder of the match in a logi outfit. So, for logis to do a good job, they had better deploy uplinks to secure, durable places. And the squad should stick around and protect uplinks that are in hazardous zones. Otherwise, the deployed uplinks are doing the team a disservice. ... So... Your saying, that for in order for Uplinks to work, you need to fly up and drop them in sniper perches, and then continue assaulting. And, so also apparently determined that a Scout, or a Assault, with their equipment, could NEVER be used to drop links where they are needed? Quite literally, the assault can drop all the uplinks it can deploy, and then go about its slaying. No drawback other then having to fit the damn things. An assault who drops uplinks and then goes about his slaying is doing his team a disservice by leaving ground-deployed uplinks to be camped/REd or destroyed by hostiles. If you deploy uplinks in a hazardous zone, stick around and protect them and the friendlies who deploy there. Otherwise, you're just creating a deathtrap that will help your team get cloned.
*facepalm*
So, what your saying, is that, when you drop your links on the roof of the spires on Line Harvest, you need to defend them.
Because you just said "job of deploying a single uplink to various strategic high structures, unreachable by enemy foot soldiers, is a job for a lonewolf".
And I just said how they are currently being done as such, and you said that that is irrelevent because you still have to defend to points. Even if they are in "high, unreachable structures". Which you just said they need to be placed in.
Your post is a walking oxymoron, and your just posting for the sake of trying to defend your broken position.
I Live for Tears
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2222
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Posted - 2014.12.07 05:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Do you understand the idea of risk? Uplinks deployed on high structures, inaccessible to foot soldiers are at a low risk. Uplinks deployed on the ground are at a high risk. Personally protect high-risk uplinks that you deploy. No need to personally protect low-risk uplinks that you deploy.
Yes, and as I said, you DON'T need a logi suit to place uplinks in low risk spots. A Assault does just fine. It has equip.
If you're arguing against bandwidth with that point, you're missing the point of other suits having equip as well.
Solo Players running assaults or scouts can effectively drop links in safe places. That is true. Bandwidth will not change that. You have no real point in bringing this up, considering the other options available for link dropping while retaining slaying efficiency.
I Live for Tears
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2223
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 05:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Do you understand the idea of risk? Uplinks deployed on high structures, inaccessible to foot soldiers are at a low risk. Uplinks deployed on the ground are at a high risk. Personally protect high-risk uplinks that you deploy. No need to personally protect low-risk uplinks that you deploy.
Yes, and as I said, you DON'T need a logi suit to place uplinks in low risk spots. A Assault does just fine. It has equip. If you're arguing against bandwidth with that point, you're missing the point of other suits having equip as well. Solo Players running assaults or scouts can effectively drop links in safe places. That is true. Bandwidth will not change that. You have no real point in bringing this up, considering the other options available for link dropping while retaining slaying efficiency. Now that we have established this idea, let's append the fact that teams often need more than 1 or 2 uplinks at a time. Often there are between 5 to 7 essential strategic locations on a map that will really give the team a doorway into the most tactical positions, allowing them to easily forge their way to victory. From a standpoint of efficiency, it is best if one person can call a dropship and supply the team with those 5 - 7 uplinks in low-risk, highly-effective locations, as opposed to 3 or 4 people calling in dropships and trying to coordinate uplink deployment so that the map is covered evenly. Post BW, if a single merc deploys 5-7 uplinks, then in order for the uplinks to remain active, the bandwidth of his/her dropsuit must support the amount of deployed equipment, forcing the merc to remain in a logi suit for as long as he/she deems it necessary to provide team support in the form of uplinks. This renders the merc relatively ineffective for that period, now unable to deploy new equipment at the cost of losing uplinks and now forced to fit logi dropsuits for other purposes to prevent losing uplinks when changing battlefield functions. Whereas pre bandwidth, he/she could have continued contributing to the team more effectively in various classes of dropsuits.
And that will hopefully encourage people to go around, drop the links where they need to, and contribute to the team as a whole.
If The Pitcher could cover all the bases, then why do we need the team?
I Live for Tears
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2224
|
Posted - 2014.12.07 06:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Clone D wrote:Do you understand the idea of risk? Uplinks deployed on high structures, inaccessible to foot soldiers are at a low risk. Uplinks deployed on the ground are at a high risk. Personally protect high-risk uplinks that you deploy. No need to personally protect low-risk uplinks that you deploy.
Yes, and as I said, you DON'T need a logi suit to place uplinks in low risk spots. A Assault does just fine. It has equip. If you're arguing against bandwidth with that point, you're missing the point of other suits having equip as well. Solo Players running assaults or scouts can effectively drop links in safe places. That is true. Bandwidth will not change that. You have no real point in bringing this up, considering the other options available for link dropping while retaining slaying efficiency. Now that we have established this idea, let's append the fact that teams often need more than 1 or 2 uplinks at a time. Often there are between 5 to 7 essential strategic locations on a map that will really give the team a doorway into the most tactical positions, allowing them to easily forge their way to victory. From a standpoint of efficiency, it is best if one person can call a dropship and supply the team with those 5 - 7 uplinks in low-risk, highly-effective locations, as opposed to 3 or 4 people calling in dropships and trying to coordinate uplink deployment so that the map is covered evenly. Post BW, if a single merc deploys 5-7 uplinks, then in order for the uplinks to remain active, the bandwidth of his/her dropsuit must support the amount of deployed equipment, forcing the merc to remain in a logi suit for as long as he/she deems it necessary to provide team support in the form of uplinks. This renders the merc relatively ineffective for that period, now unable to deploy new equipment at the cost of losing uplinks and now forced to fit logi dropsuits for other purposes to prevent losing uplinks when changing battlefield functions. Whereas pre bandwidth, he/she could have continued contributing to the team more effectively in various classes of dropsuits. And that will hopefully encourage people to go around, drop the links where they need to, and contribute to the team as a whole. If The Pitcher could cover all the bases, then why do we need the team? So my post BW options after I deploy uplinks become: 1. Build a slayer logi without deployable equipment. 2. Build a repper logi without deployable equipment. 3. Build a point defense logi without deployable equipment. 4. Build a suppression logi without deployable equipment. 5. Build a hacker logi without deployable equipment. 6. Build a close range assault logi without deployable equipment. 7. Build a mid range assault logi without deployable equipment. 8. Build a long range assault logi without deployable equipment. 9. Build an AV logi without deployable equipment. 10. etc. logi without deployable equipment. This could be the same solution for deploying a proxy minefield as well. What BW just did was limit which dropsuit I have to wear in order to play the game. What BW just did was stop me from both effectively deploying a proxy minefield and effectively deploying uplinks and effectively deploying REs and effectively deploying hives simultaneously. I know how to do those things to effectively support the team and not spam. Why shouldn't I be able to drop multiple pieces of responsibly-placed equipment and then carry on in other roles and other dropsuits?
For LOGIS, no.
Logis have double the Assault Bandwidth.
If you played logi, then you drop Links, and you still have at least 8 left to work with. So I think that's 2 Hives, or 2 RE's.
It is a bit hard on minefields, perhaps, but then, that BW on RE's and PE's can change. A BW of 1 Seems much more appropriate then 4 on RE's. But the implementation of the system itself does not bar changes. Hotfixes man...
I Live for Tears
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